Best Deal Ever

Traditionalist are really odd in that the refuse to read what is written if it disagrees with the traditional view.  They way they treat the gospel of John is a case in point.  They want you to read the first chapter and say that if the Word was God in verse 1 that then the same meaning of the Word “word” must be applied in verse 14, And that this means that Jesus was then fully god walking around in the flesh.  But you ask them to read down to verse 18 and they do not know how to make sense of it.  While it is obvious that verse 18 cannot be talking about baby Jesus for it says that Jesus has declared or made God known, It also states that no man has seen God at any time.  Yet their conclusion was that the Word being made flesh was the same as saying that Jesus was fully God.  Here is where we start going round and round a clear point to try to reconcile truth with myth tradition.  For the same verse that says no man has seen God at any time, says Jesus made known who God is and yet for Jesus to have declared who God is he had to be seen and heard speaking or demonstrating who God is.  The Word speaks of Jesus being seen by thousands of people on many occasions many of whom were men, He Jesus in fact had at least 12 men who were with him much of his year long ministry and they saw him almost daily during the acceptable year of the lord.  Yet this truth that no man has seen God at any time is repeated in I Jn 4:12.  In chapter 4 of the Gospel of Jn we read we have not seen God the father’s form or heard His voice if we do not recognize that God hath sent His son in the person of Jesus Christ. which is an odd thing for Jesus to say by revelation as it is recorded in Isaiah 53:2 that God hath no form or comeliness and that his Servant (who might be seen) that should grow up before Him as a tender plant (from verse 1) would not have such physical beauty that he would be desirable by our five senses. That this passage refers to Christ as God’s servant is commonly accepted.  (Since scripture is truth all the images around today that depict Jesus as a handsome man must be wrong somehow.  I guess we will find out  at the Gathering together.  That is one thing that we might prepare ourselves for that the image of Jesus that so many of us have in our minds will not be the person we see on that day.)  We will all be so blessed on that great day perhaps it will not matter that our mental pictures and reality do not match, perhaps with our new bodies and our new ability to know even as we are known, our personalities will become more flexible than those that are sometimes demonstrated from time to time.  Some people get so upset when expectations are not met and something that we expected to be so old school turns out to be so novel and different.  If Christ turns out to be black with coarse hair in a fro or in dread locks instead of the pasty white guy whose hair flows down his back and has a neatly trimmed beard, will that put someone off whose thought process makes some other appearance as their Lord and Savior.  Recent politics would seem to indicate people are much more shallow than we might hope where Obama was quite upfront with His positions yet He still got elected despite His advocating policies that have been shown over and over not to be viable.  Yes it is true that the electorate are not all that familiar with history, perhaps they do not recognize liberal policies to be as Socialistic as they are and Socialized medicine is some peoples ideas of utopia, despite the fact that it has never worked in the long run, when ever it has been tried.  As the new taxes wrapped up in the bill take their toll and when the limited nature of the care available as a result of the mandates get put in place by default will the American people wake up and revolt against the programs or will we try to put band aids after band aids on the legislation.  The legislation was sold to us as a way to lower the cost of heath care yet the only people for whom a lower cost will be available will be those for whom the health care is government subsidized.  There are no aspects of the legislation that address the cost of the care other than lower reimbursements for those that provide the care no matter what the care costs them.  As I shared before this is unsustainable and doomed to fail.  Why do I keep bringing this up as a political example of failure?  Not to be self fulfilling prophecy but as a trained nurse who worked in the industry for over 25 years, someone very concerned by the analysis that is being ignored by the advocates of the legislation because universal health care is seen by them as a viable proposition despite the record of it never succeeding.  In contrast to being close to the worst deal ever, we have a good deal promised to us if Jesus got his prayer in Jn 17 answered. Lets turn to that analysis of John 17.

  Vs 1″ These words spake  Jesus and lifted his eyes to heaven and said ” Father the hour is come; glorify Thy son that Thy son may also glorify Thee:”  The first four words of this verse actually complete the thoughts expressed at the end of chapter 16 but we lack the continuation of the context that Jesus is doing the speaking and that it is Jesus that lifted his eyes to heaven and begins this prayer to God, his heavenly Father.  Chapters and verses were not in the Greek or Aramaic text,  but the word translated Jesus is not repeated.  But could perhaps be properly supplied here as the verb spake / said is repeated.  This represents a figure of speech ellipsis that actually emphasizes the fact that it is Jesus speaking.  The end of Chapter 16 is not a prayer where Chapter 17 definitely is.  Thus the reason the KJV translators assigned the chapter here. 

Vs 2  “As thou has given him (Jesus speaking of himself in the third person) power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given him.”

Vs 3  “And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”   Note that even though Jesus is speaking here he is speaking of himself in the third person perhaps to emphasize that He is speaking that which the heavenly father is telling him to say, as he related was his habit in Jn 12 :48-50. 

Vs 4   “I have glorified Thee on the earth:  I have finished the work which Thou hast given me to do.”   The acceptable year of the Lord was drawing to a close, This shows that this prayer is prophesy at least in part, as this will not be true till after the Crucifixion and his post resurrection appearance ministry was completed at the ascension.   Not being the all knowing God, Jesus had no concept that the time was so close that his life would soon be required of him.  He Jesus would tell his disciples to make the necessary arrangements to share a Passover meal with them when he as he later learned, would not be around to eat it with them because he Jesus was to be the Passover Lamb that year.

Vs 5  “And now o Father, glorify Thou me with Thine own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the World was.”  Just as we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world Ep 1 :3  Jesus in God’s foreknowledge had glory with God even when Jesus was only a part of the Word (the thoughts and concepts that God turned into our universe) that was with God and was God in the beginning Jn 1:1.  God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself II Co 5 :19.  God is the eternal being that creates, Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our Faith because as the second Adam he proved that man could believe to accomplish God’s plan of Salvation.  Thus God is our Savior by conceiving the plan, Jesus is our Savior by carrying it out, (fulfilling the law) Without the plan being conceived Jesus could not carry it out.  Jesus stated it “I can of mine own self do nothing.”  Jn 5:30.

Vs 6 “I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were and Thou gavest them me, And they have kept Thy word.”   It is the men that God gave him out of the world not the name that God gave him out of the world as those that teach that this verse means that God’s name is Jesus too.  Jesus made known or declared the name of God, God’s identity. Jn 1 :18,  He never stated he was a triune being or made up of three persons or three parts which were in some mysterious way one unified whole.  These concepts were not devised during the times of Jesus Christ’s ministry or even when God revealed to Paul what the new Covenant was all about.  The time for trinity to be taught as if it was Bible based doctrine would not occur till about 200 years after the Bible text was completed.  After Re 22:18,19 were written,  where it is noted that things added to The Bible after then brought with them the curses recorded in the Word.  Also note that Jesus declares here that his choices of the twelve were God’s choices, including Judas, and that the twelve that Jesus chose had kept or performed as God had revealed to Jesus that they would do.  It should be noted that if you remove that which man has added to the scriptures you have restored the scriptures not changed them.

Vs 7 “Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given me are of Thee.”  “Thy word is truth”  verse 17 of this chapter.  This is the first time of this prayer this thought is expressed that God is the truth and truth does not change because it is God and Jesus manifested the name of God, that is, Jesus was the image (he had the spirit as a part of him just as did Adam and Eve till the day of their transgression.) of the one true and only God, his heavenly Father.  In the next verse he explains how.

Vs 8 “For I have given unto them the words Thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from Thee and they have believed that Thou didst send me.”  Being sent by somebody does not make you that somebody, it does not state here that God divided himself and came as a part that represented the whole just as God on three occasions did not say aloud from heaven that this is me listen to me or Jn 3:16 does not say For I so loved the World that I came as myself That you might believe on me and have eternal life.

Vs 9 “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them that Thou hast given me, for they are Thine.”   Jesus Christ here draws distinction between all mankind and Believers.  The universal brotherhood of man is not a Bible based concept.  We are charged with offering Salvation to all not treating all the inhabitants of earth as if they are Saved and a part of our Family.  The children of Earth are not all considered holy or innocent see I Co 7:14  It takes a believing parent to have that distinction contrary to traditional beliefs. 

Vs 10 “And all mine are Thine and Thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.”  Because our believing is only available because of the accomplished work of our savior Jesus Christ, We are a part of the glory that God has given to Christ  Ep 1:18 we are part  and joint heirs of the glory that is Christ’s, God’s inheritance.  God’s inheritance is Christ and the body of Christ which is our church.

Vs 11 “And now am I no more in  the world, but these are in the world and I come to thee.  Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom Thou hast given me, that they may be one as we are.”  We are to be kept in the name of God that Jesus had made known.  We are Jehovah’s family.  We are the son’s of Elohim.  Again this is prophetic because when it was spoken Jesus was still in the world but Within 50 days he would not be.  And the last phrase again causes problems for the Trinitarians arguments, for they maintain that When Jesus says I and my father are one that he means he is God.  Who would know better than Jesus what he meant and here he is praying that the same oneness that God the Father and he shared we (those born again and thus given to him Jesus) would also share.  While we are part of God’s family, I do not believe the scriptures say we become God.  So this oneness with God that Jesus is praying that we may share with God just as he shared oneness with God cannot mean in identity.  I am told that the connotation from the Greek words involved with this oneness shared is one in purpose.    When we are in fellowship, when we recognize that we have been given the ministry of reconciliation, then we can be one in purpose with God that whosoever desires to be reconciled can be by the Words and examples that we provide for them as we live disciplined lives for God.  God says He would have all men to be saved. I Ti 2:4.  We can join him in that purpose that we would desire that all that are willing to listen to the Gospel would be saved.  We at that moment are not ashamed to share the gospel message that we have been taught.  Or to share where we learned it from, from rightly dividing the Word of God.  I believe that this prayer of Jesus Christ that he received by inspiration of God was answered and that we too can say I and the Father are one.  This statement does not make us claim to be God any more than it made Jesus claim to be God.    Rather it clarifies that we share the same purpose for sharing the gospel with those we are communicating with as God had in being in Christ reconciling men to Himself.  God is in Christ and Christ is in us reconciling men to Himself, God.  We are sharing the purpose of God as one with Him in that purpose, with unity of purpose.  WE confess that we are in fellowship with Him as we stand upon the Word that we know.  Why this is so hard for them (traditionalist) to understand the concept I cannot say but they definitely do have problems understanding that this is what is meant.   Unless you believe that we become God, Jesus would not pray that we would have the same oneness as He shared with God if being one with the father meant in (or having) the same identity as God.  Being God with all my faults I do not see as possible, but being one in purpose with God when I am in fellowship and witnessing I can see is possible.  If for only as long as my next time to fall short falls to me again, I Jn 1 :10 we are lying to ourselves if we think we are without sin.  We strive to perfection, to being fully equipped with God’s wisdom as to what is the truth.  We may fall short and that is the reason we need Jesus as Lord in our lives so that we may profit from the grace and mercy that is extended toward us so that as in Ephesians we are accepted in the beloved, we are the Sons of God.

Vs 12 “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name; those that Thou gavest me I have kept and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.”  God is here assuring Jesus that he has not blown it, that he has not lost any that he was to have as he fulfilled the scriptures that were his to fulfill.  I hope that when you hear from our Father (via the manifestations of holy spirit) that you may also hear this type of comforting message.  God uses the manifestations of holy spirit to communicate with us.  We need to learn to listen and not block the manifestations from being active in our lives.  For we want the scriptures that are written concerning us to be fulfilled as well.  Do not crucify the Lord again by refusing what Jesus accomplished for us.

Vs 13 “And now come I to Thee, and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.”  We are to share the joy that Jesus had as we also see the purpose of God fulfilled because we are doing that which He has led us to do by His word.  We are manifesting holy spirit in our lives, we are seeing signs, miracles and wonders following our footsteps as we discipline our thoughts to think His thoughts.  Nothing can separate us from God’s love as we renew our minds to our positions in the family of God and what all that means.

Vs 14 “I have given them Thy Word, and the world hath hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.”  We are hated by those that are not of the family, simply because we are of that greatest family in the universe.  The Word that Jesus gave us is the reason we are members in particular of that family for we mixed the Word with believing it to be the Word of God when we heard it.  The world is a terrible place because it is ruled over by a thief see Jn 10 :10 and other verses about the god of this world.  So it is a good thing to not be of it.

Vs 15 “I pray not that Thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”  “One” is properly supplied at the end of this verse.  The basic message is that we should not be transformed just yet but that we should be protected from the worst attacks of the adversary (“the evil one”) according to our believing.  (God will never overstep the bounds He places on Himself such as never taking away our freedom of will.  We have to make the choices that determine how our life prospers or not as our souls prosper III Jn 2

Vs 16 “They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.”  Our citizenship is in heaven, we are not just Americans or whatever country is your home country, but citizens of heaven as well.  We have so much to be thankful for: and our membership in the fellowship of the family of God should surely be near the top of the list.

Vs 17 “Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.”  Our believing this verse sets us apart from the world.  It is the reason that we are Christians after all because we believe that we are aware of who is God and What was and is the plan of salvation that we needed and that we appropriate to our joy by doing Romans 10:9,10 at the heart level.  When God in His word tells us that He raised Jesus up from the dead we believe that that is the truth and we stake our eternal lives on it.   If not at first we eventually realize that it is in response to God’s love expressed toward us that this is available to us and we return thanksgiving for being so loved and blessed.  It is the truth that makes us free to know that we need not be blown about by every wind of doctrine that comes to our attention.  We eventually also know that truth is truth and it does not change just because we were raised from a slightly or majorly different point of view.  II Pe 1 :20,21

Vs 18 “As Thou has sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.”  If Satan had known this that we would be mini messiahs because of what Jesus was accomplishing He would not have had the Lord of Glory crucified I Co 2:8. Mini messiahs (as opposed to the messiah, who is Jesus) because we are also sent as this verse says to reconcile people back to God. II Co 5:18

Vs 19 “And for their sakes, I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.”  To sanctify is to set apart and no you do not have to be God to sanctify as recorded here because Jesus as the second created human being (Adam) here says he does so as inspired by God to say and that God later had John record.  It might be of note that Jesus uses the truth to set himself and in turn us apart.  The context is we are set apart from the World by the Word.

Vs 20 “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word.”  If it wasn’t clear before that we would be included as the ones given to Christ, here we get included for we believed through their word because if they had not left behind their word we would not have any idea about the gospel or be aware that it is available for us to believe it.  This gospel that vanishes away with us when we see Jesus face to face I Co 13:8,12. 

Vs 21 “That they all may be one; as Thou Father art in me and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou has sent me”  Just to be sure we get it God inspires the truth to be reiterated here and in the next verses that Jesus believed it possible for us to be able to say I and my father are one just as Jesus did in Jn 10 :30 as well as in verse 11 above. 

Vs 22 “And the glory which Thou gavest me, I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one”  Could God be any plainer yet many Trinitarian confessors are ignorant that Jesus ever prayed this because Jn 10:30 needs to say something so much different in meaning to fit the tradition than it actually does.  Again God’s plan to protect the meaning of the truth is in evidence here in that He is not content to just say it once but He makes it difficult to counterfeit another meaning by saying it many more times than just once.  God wants us to be able to say just as Jesus does and mean the same thing as Jesus did that I and my father are one meaning we are one in purpose of getting the truth (the Word he gives us) out there that results in man being reconciled to God, who he declared to be our heavenly Father.

Vs 23 “I in them and Thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that Thou hast sent me and hast loved them as Thou hast loved me.”  It is God in Christ in us and the word perfect is the same Greek word as translated finished in verse 4 above.  This first phrase indicates that we are to know that the effort God makes to allow us to be one in purpose with Him and His son Jesus Christ is completed, finished from God’s perspective a perfect or accomplished work.  It is up to us to do our part and make I Pe 3:15 A reality in our lives.  We are to be ready always to give an answer to any one that asks us about our hope that is in our lives with meekness and fear (or respect).  God is the greatest attraction marketer in the universe.  He gives us so much value that if we are in any way receptive to allow Him to Feed us with milk or meat He will make a way for us to receive our fill.  And just possibly we learn to recognize the second half of the verse that the reason this is all available is not based on fear as the world teaches but a more sure footing on the basis of Love, not a fickle love that we need to be afraid of losing but the love of God as described in I Co 13.

VS 24 Father, I will also that they whom Thou hast given me, be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory which Thou hast given me for Thou hast lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”  Prophetically Jesus is praying here that our hope, the Gathering Together as described in I Co 15:42-58 and I Th 4 :13- 18. and II Th 2:1 take place.  Has it yet?  Is there a Christian on the face of the earth?  If the answer is yes to the latter then the answer to the former is a resounding no because we all get there at the same time except Jesus who is the first fruits of the dead.  Remember we are a part of those given to Jesus as noted in verse 20 above.

Vs 25 “O righteous Father, the world hath not known Thee: but I have known Thee, and these have known that Thou hast sent me.”  Recognizing that God the source of truth has sent Jesus the second created human being or second Adam and that Jesus knew of and about God and declared or made known who God is, a righteous Father, and yes we are full circle back to Jn 1:18.

Vs 26 ” And I have declared unto them Thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith Thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them.”     Jesus finishes this prayer that is like all other scripture inspired by God stressing that he has taught the World who God is and he never once mentions the trinity word or triune concept as an Identity of his heavenly Father,  God as his (and now ours as well) heavenly Father who loves us is who Jesus made known to be God.  This is the truth that makes you free.  And with your freedom to be the person you want to be God will be very blessed to help you to succeed.

This concludes the prayer and the Chapter.  We see that this is a prayer spoken by Jesus, we know that Jesus says his assigned task is complete and that a part of that task is or was to declare who God is and to be acknowledged by those who are given him by believing his Words are truth and that the truth results in acknowledging that God has sent Jesus and that subsequently Jesus sent us that we would share a unity of purpose with him, Jesus.  That unity that Jesus also had with God that through the Word of God a man can be reconciled to God who then becomes our Heavenly Father.  A heavenly Father that we can say with all humility that I and my Father are one and share the unity of purpose that if you are willing to listen, we are willing to reconcile the differences between unsaved man and God thus making you saved and a part of the family.  And that the reason that all this is gloriously available is that we are loved and we are able to share that love one with another.  This is the best deal available in the universe.


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